Tuesday, February 12th, 2008...1:14 pm
Thoughts on squat
The comments from yesterday’s post got me a thinkun’. The modern powerlifting stance, which I attempt to covet for power meets before I switch gears with the narrow stance for future weightlifting meets, fires the hips a bit differently than a more traditional squat. The hips stay considerably back and the leg are quite wide, both under the assumption that that posterior chain will play a mighty role role, perhaps even robbing the quads of their former squatting glory (sorry, vastus group).
Granted there is evidence to suggest that this ‘power squat’ position may be best suited for suits, but raw lifters like myself are embracing the stance as a way to get the hams to join in the fun.
The caveat is the knees. To keep them happier, tracking them in line with the toes works best, but this means consciously avoiding internal rotation, which means using the biggest external rotator we have (the aforementioned bulgus posteriorus, AKA my big ass) to keep the knees from buckling in at all. Hence my work with wrapping a band around the knees. Previous video analysis reveals a weakness in keeping those knees out, and being that I like my knees, I wanted to focus on proper positioning. But how good is the tush at external rotation and hip extension at the same time? Does one have to suffer for the other during max loads
My quest, though, is to see if the fame of the power squat is warranted. Maybe it is all a sham, simply created so that elite powerlifters with massive bellies can hit depth without squishing their breakfast up into their throats. Us skinny, unsuited guys may get a better drive from using depth and stretch reflex instead of width for booty and ham power. Also the wide stance will get anyone to eventually hit competition depth without worrying about ankle flexibility, a problem which could become quickly apparent when switching to a narrow stance or practicing olympic lifts.
I’m willing to guinea pig myself further for the sake of my love of squats. Let us see…
Me (2000) and Matt (2005) both with narrower stances and PR’s.
8 Comments
February 12th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Whoa.
I’m very much interested in the results of this experiment.
February 12th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
I participated in the Iron Gladiators meet you guys hosted. It was an awesome time, and I hope you guys do it again next year.
I remember your squating stance and I thought it was very wide for someone lifting raw, though you did a marvelous job regardless.
Personally I think a raw, squat should look more like an Olympic lifters squat.
The more gear you got on the more it pays off to go wider.
Look at Sam Byrd hear all suited and armored up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ndMpHZTiuY
Now suitless
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25SC4LkfiCo
To me the ideal squat for a raw lifter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBK-4Q-IlP4
February 13th, 2008 at 1:10 am
Okay, one reason for going narrower in the raw squat is the effect of the stretch reflex, and possibly quads, in starting power (a job which is aided by a suit for the geared lifters). But as for the narrower stance relieving the glutes of their dual duty (no more external rotation), that leaves me wondering, does a suit aid in proper knee tracking when using a wide stance?
February 13th, 2008 at 5:22 am
Cool points. The question being asked maybe is “who says that is what a squat should look like?” Bill Kazmaier squatted narrow and low. Tom Platz squatted high bar narrow and low. All Oly lifters squat narrow, low with a lot of knee. Nearly all old school squatters squatted narrow and low. A lot of old school squatters did round back squats!!! The second of Chips photos is interesting. Feet fallen in, femurs rolling in, big vastus to cope with it, good glutes kicking in.
When a knee dips in, if the proprioceptors register it fast, the knee wont dip in toooo far before it rights. Some oly lifters drive their knees in at the sticking point to get past it.
The wide sumo suited belted wrapped no ankle flexion squat is a way to shift more weight. Like the leg press allows you to shift more weight. That’s my view. It’s also death defying with 1200 pounds. I think that’s awesome in the way that cage fighting is awesome…….and no thanks very much. With 1200 pounds on your back, the proprioceptive system will be going utterly nuts. Any motion in would snap them as sometimes happens. Any lower than the depth they go would require internal rotation and snap them. Any flexion and they would snap. It’s extreme squatting par excellence. Their raw squats are 3-400 pounds lower!!!
I was Junior British Bodybuilding champ at 20 and at 19 squatted 340kgs (eight plates) high bar, narrow stance, full squat. Never ever had a problem. I have flat as pancake feet, long torso and a vastus medialis like an avacado! Wider squats take my completely out of my natural strength mechanics, so I do them as an assistance move. I also don’t squat ANYWHERE near that weight now!!!
What I’m into, is each individual developing their own squat. Period. Knees can safely come in ENOUGH if there is the reactivity to support it.
For me, it comes down to functional biomechanics and personal nuance.
I love this site.
Please embelish me with a colourful name, that sounds lovely.
Dan
February 13th, 2008 at 10:23 am
I should clarify the wide stance I’m talking about. I call it the WPO stance, which again, is often justified by many of it’s converts by increasing posterior chain (especially hamstring) activation, but seems increasingly more like simple justification as an easier way to hit depth in most federations with a butt-load of weight.
Each meet I compete has seen a different stance, so this whole thought process has me not particularly thrilled with my current wide stance, hence the questioning of the WSB/WPO logic behind it. Certain ‘dogmas’ need shaken, and this is one of them.
February 13th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Okay, y’all got me convinced. Next traing cycle, I’m trying narrow.
Going crazy sumo wide & box squatting over the past few months has, IMO, really brought up my glutes & hams (I’m not sure I even knew how to use them before). Now that the glutes, hams, & my CNS are all more familiar with each-other, those times that I do try a narrower squat, I feel I’m able to activate them much more than I was previously. I’m interested to see how that affects a narrow max attempt…
And Dan, for your intimate knowledge of the glutes, I deem you “Ass-Master.”
February 14th, 2008 at 3:47 am
Whether you squat wide
Or if indeed you squat narrow
You have to focus with intent
The sharpened arrow…..
If your glutes are slack
You must recruit them faster
If your glutes are tight
Then you need Ass Master
Ass Master!! Ass Master!!
Ass Master of Puppets I’m pulling your strings…
Ass Master!! Ass Master
(Guitar Solo)
8:54 here in UK supping on a double espresso.
Cheers Tribe
Dan
February 14th, 2008 at 11:41 am
How could I have ever expected a squatting homage to Metallica on my blog? A great way to start the day.
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